Paper

[Rhia]

Jae and I both have a paper due tomorrow.

*wilts*

Tomorrow morning, I will look like this: 

Then, while I wait for my grade, I will look like this:  <----- Rhia, praying to the mighty gods of structuralism.

And also this: 

And if I get a bad grade... well, I would look like this:  , except my GSI is cute and I have a crush on his grading style, so mostly I just look like this:

...okay, kvetching complete.

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

Jae and I both have a paper due tomorrow.

GOOD LUCK!

Y'all will do super well.

-Matthew

[Falconer]

Good luck! 

[blondiechic0]

I'd say good luck, but you two aren't gonna need it. The papers will just be that awesome.

[LilacMajesty]

As articulate as you two are in the casual atmosphere of this message board, I have absolutely no doubts that your papers are going to be anything but spectacular.

[Rhia]

Thanks for the well-wishes and reassurances, everyone. Ya'll are awesome. 

Honestly, it wouldn't be such a pain, except this professor teaches formalism, which isn't really a school of thought that most people... use... at this point. So pretty much none of the other professors teach it, and it's difficult to make my brain function in that way.

I submitted my paper about an hour ago. Jae is planning to scrape in before the deadline. We're both still alive. Mostly.

...my normal posting schedule and wiki-editing habits will resume once midterms are over. 

[blondiechic0]

Thanks for the well-wishes and reassurances, everyone. Ya'll are awesome. 

Honestly, it wouldn't be such a pain, except this professor teaches formalism, which isn't really a school of thought that most people... use... at this point. So pretty much none of the other professors teach it, and it's difficult to make my brain function in that way.

I submitted my paper about an hour ago. Jae is planning to scrape in before the deadline. We're both still alive. Mostly.

...my normal posting schedule and wiki-editing habits will resume once midterms are over. 

As probably the one person on here who has never been to college...

Formalism? What is that and how do you teach it?

[JaeFire]

I submitted my paper about an hour ago. Jae is planning to scrape in before the deadline. We're both still alive. Mostly.

You early people are baffling.  (I am a mix of envy and distaste--yeah, I went there! ::eyes Rhia warily:: ) 

Anyway, yeah.  Scraping for me.  I just can't force myself to do otherwise.  If I submit it early, what if I find a mistake, or something I could have improved upon?  I feel like I need to take every second they give me, or else I'll have wasted it.  (I'm a freak.  I'm like this during tests, too, though not so bad.)

- Jae


P.S. I'd answer the formalism question, but I'm still writing my paper and this is just my snack break--and, more importantly, Rhia's the teacher.  She'd do a much better job explaining than I could.

[Rhia]

Hun, I don't call "four o'clock the day it's due" early, especially since I TA a class from 6:30 to 9:30, and only got home about fifteen minutes ago. If I had literally put it off 'til the last minute, I'd have about an hour and a half to finish it. And that would make me cry. 

Actually, every time I try to explain formalism, I pretty much fail. Like I said, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Basically, though, it's literary analysis using the text, and nothing but the text, but in a sort of extreme way. You basically don't touch anything that isn't explicitly stated in the text. For example, one student in the class started to say something about Mercutio's feelings, or motivations, or some such. Most analysis classes, this would be reasonable, as long as he could find things in the text that seem to back up his assertions, and as long as there was nothing in the text that out-and-out disproved his theory. This class, the teacher looked at him and said, "Mercutio is a fictional character. He doesn't have feelings."

On top of that, our particular teacher seems to be coming from a structuralist point of view, which means that he's looking at things on a word-to-word, syllable-to-syllable basis, and is especially concerned with how the word choice and sounds present in the text effect the person hearing or reading them.

Keep in mind that this way of analyzing literature was pretty much in vogue from the fifties through to the seventies; not a lot of professors teach it anymore, at least not exclusively.

...tell me if that didn't help at all. If you want, I could send you a copy of the paper I just wrote; that might give you a better idea of how crazy and detail-oriented this is.

[blondiechic0]

Hun, I don't call "four o'clock the day it's due" early, especially since I TA a class from 6:30 to 9:30, and only got home about fifteen minutes ago. If I had literally put it off 'til the last minute, I'd have about an hour and a half to finish it. And that would make me cry. 

Actually, every time I try to explain formalism, I pretty much fail. Like I said, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Basically, though, it's literary analysis using the text, and nothing but the text, but in a sort of extreme way. You basically don't touch anything that isn't explicitly stated in the text. For example, one student in the class started to say something about Mercutio's feelings, or motivations, or some such. Most analysis classes, this would be reasonable, as long as he could find things in the text that seem to back up his assertions, and as long as there was nothing in the text that out-and-out disproved his theory. This class, the teacher looked at him and said, "Mercutio is a fictional character. He doesn't have feelings."

On top of that, our particular teacher seems to be coming from a structuralist point of view, which means that he's looking at things on a word-to-word, syllable-to-syllable basis, and is especially concerned with how the word choice and sounds present in the text effect the person hearing or reading them.

Keep in mind that this way of analyzing literature was pretty much in vogue from the fifties through to the seventies; not a lot of professors teach it anymore, at least not exclusively.

...tell me if that didn't help at all. If you want, I could send you a copy of the paper I just wrote; that might give you a better idea of how crazy and detail-oriented this is.

So basically a super literal interpretation, strictly of the text? I think I get it.

[Rhia]

So basically a super literal interpretation, strictly of the text? I think I get it.

It can't be too-too literal, because parts of the text are bound to be metaphorical, but yeah, basically.

[LilacMajesty]

So you have to look at things like you're Xio Voe?

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

That's a really interesting way of examining the text.  I vote that all literature majors should have a mandatory class on formalism.

The structuralist stuff, though, makes me nervous as an author.

-Matthew

[Rhia]

So you have to look at things like you're Xio Voe?

Hrm. Interesting thought. If there's really any form of literary criticism that is psuedo-scientific, it's that one. It still has a lot to do with what emotions the words invoke in the reader, though.

That's a really interesting way of examining the text.  I vote that all literature majors should have a mandatory class on formalism.

I think it's a really useful and interesting way of looking at the text, if only because it's not the way that we're usually taught to look at the text. This class is intense, though. The first semester I had this teacher, I was baffled half the semester, just completely lost. I would walk out thoroughly depressed, because it was my first semester at this Frighteningly Pretentious Prestigious University, and I just wasn't getting it, and I was sure that everyone else was smarter than me.

...turns out they weren't, they were just quieter about being baffled.

...which, er, might actually be an indication that they were smarter. They knew when to STFU.

The structuralist stuff, though, makes me nervous as an author.

God, tell me about it. I would never want someone to look at something I wrote under that close a microscope. I'm careful about my word choice, but damned if I'm that careful.

[JaeFire]

I think it's a really useful and interesting way of looking at the text, if only because it's not the way that we're usually taught to look at the text. This class is intense, though. The first semester I had this teacher, I was baffled half the semester, just completely lost. I would walk out thoroughly depressed, because it was my first semester at this Frighteningly Pretentious Prestigious University, and I just wasn't getting it, and I was sure that everyone else was smarter than me.

...turns out they weren't, they were just quieter about being baffled.

...which, er, might actually be an indication that they were smarter. They knew when to STFU.

Yeah, I didn't get my moment of epiphany for what our professor was doing until like the 3rd week or something (my memory for RL is crap, so I'm not quite sure about this).  I'm a year older than Rhia, so I've been at Cal longer, and I could tell right away that people were just as flummoxed by him as I was because of the silence, so I wasn't worried. 

It was like an intense waiting and watching game, where I think people (me included) were just staring very intently at this crazy old man, trying to understand what the hell he was talking about.  I just nonchalantly assumed that if I was patient enough, and paid enough attention, I'd eventually get it, because I saw that everyone else was as ridiculously confused by the professor as I was (which is what happened with us both, I think--right?).

(I feel really bad for Rhia in this regard, actually.  Sucks that this was her first class here.  Depending on the type of class, usually humanities classes, people tend to speak out more when they understand a lot and are excited by the material--there's not much "stupid question" asking, which I think can be both a curse and a blessing.  The nature of the English major in general, I think, is one that doesn't really promote asking any sort of comprehension questions (valid or not), because it's so very based on discussing  interpretations rather than comprehension.  They just assume you understand and can contribute something.  It's not like a science or math course where, when people are confused, they tend to ask more questions. 

Problem was, our professor is just so unlike anyone other English professor teaching right now at our school (or any other university in this country, I imagine), because of what Rhia was talking about (his school of thought)--so his methodology basically made our brains want to pop open the top of our heads, crawl out of our skulls, and run away.  In the first half of the semester, there was a lot of silent staring at handouts and silently screaming, "OMGWTF???")

But yeah, I really like the crazy old man now, after I understood what the heck he was saying.  He's such a dear.  (Curmudgeonly, and dear.)  Rhia and I have conversations about how fond of him we are.  I feel like, in his classes, he breaks brains open, tries to put them back together, and when some of them don't, he kind of wanders off.  (Warning: that image came from a very sleep-deprived brain that just woke up after a couple hours of sleep.)

- Jae

[mc_cart_ny]

That's a really interesting way of examining the text.  I vote that all literature majors should have a mandatory class on formalism.

-Matthew

Why, Matthew, why are you so cruel? lol  From reading what Jae and Rhia have I said, I think I would not have enjoyed a class like this at all - I simply would have cried and quite probably dropped the class (I once dropped a Psych 101 class because the teacher never taught what was on the quizzes and tests) because I can only take so much of feeling like the stupidest person in the world and that most likely would be what I'd have felt like in this class.  Thankfully, my school never offered a course like this so I never had the chance to take it. lol

And good luck on your papers!!!  I's sure you guys will do great!

~McCartny~

[Magical_Jen]

ugh papers suck, I have four due over the next two weeks that I just want to go away. I hope your able to work efficiently in a quite space and that your words flow with ease. Good Luck!

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

I have four due over the next two weeks that I just want to go away

Ouch.  We all send helpful, insightful thoughts your way!

-Matthew

[Falconer]

ugh papers suck, I have four due over the next two weeks

Ouch!  Good luck with those. I majored in Economics hoping to avoid papers, but I ended having to write quite a few of them anyway. 

[Magical_Jen]

Ouch.  We all send helpful, insightful thoughts your way!
-Matthew

Thanks! I'm hopeing to knock to of the smaller papers out of the way tonight. Unfortunealty that means that i won't be able to read ITL 127  when it comes out.  *tear*, I know.

Ouch!  Good luck with those. I majored in Economics hoping to avoid papers, but I ended having to write quite a few of them anyway. 

Thanks! Yeah I was silly enough to do a double honours in English and History and a minor in Cultural studies, so I have papers due ever week.

[mc_cart_ny]

Yeah I was silly enough to do a double honours in English and History and a minor in Cultural studies, so I have papers due ever week.

English AND History??  OMG talk about your paper heavy studies!    Your poor fingers must be worn down! lol  And I thought my arm hurt from being an English major...

Good luck with your papers these next few weeks!  The relief from being finished AND getting ITL will be nice reward!

~McCartny~

[Magical_Jen]

English AND History??  OMG talk about your paper heavy studies!    Your poor fingers must be worn down! lol  And I thought my arm hurt from being an English major...

Good luck with your papers these next few weeks!  The relief from being finished AND getting ITL will be nice reward!

~McCartny~

Thanks!  but I cheated and read 127, I couldn't help it i'm weak it, I heard the chime form my e-mail and I had to read it. Now I can focus again. I will be an ideal student!

[LilacMajesty]

Buckle down Jen, or I'm sending Xio Voe in to make sure you do.

[Rhia]

Yeah, I didn't get my moment of epiphany for what our professor was doing until like the 3rd week or something.

Yeah, about three weeks...

...if you add another five weeks or so.

(I feel really bad for Rhia in this regard, actually.  Sucks that this was her first class here.  Depending on the type of class, usually humanities classes, people tend to speak out more when they understand a lot and are excited by the material--there's not much "stupid question" asking, which I think can be both a curse and a blessing.  The nature of the English major in general, I think, is one that doesn't really promote asking any sort of comprehension questions (valid or not), because it's so very based on discussing  interpretations rather than comprehension.  They just assume you understand and can contribute something.  It's not like a science or math course where, when people are confused, they tend to ask more questions. 

People are way, way too self-conscious in our major -- in a lot of humanities majors, I think -- about the possibility of sounding stupid. I don't get it. I'm there to learn; do I really care if I embarrass myself for five seconds by asking about something that most people have already caught on to? It's not like most of the other students are going to remember that I asked a dumb question by the time class ends, and the professors hardly penalize ignorance. You know, because it's sort of their job to... remedy ignorance.

Of course, this fear of sounding dumb creates that not-so-rare and elusive creature, the Pretentious Jackass, who thinks that the best way to avoid sounding dumb is to ramble on for five minutes using as many big words and obscure references as the possibly can.

so his methodology basically made our brains want to pop open the top of our heads, crawl out of our skulls, and run away.  In the first half of the semester, there was a lot of silent staring at handouts and silently screaming, "OMGWTF???")

Heeheehee.

But yeah, I really like the crazy old man now, after I understood what the heck he was saying.  He's such a dear.  (Curmudgeonly, and dear.)  Rhia and I have conversations about how fond of him we are.  I feel like, in his classes, he breaks brains open, tries to put them back together, and when some of them don't, he kind of wanders off. 

He is a dear, even if he's a bit odd. I remember, last semester I ran into the GSI when I was grabbing dinner one night, and we started chatting. He asked if I liked or hated the class so far. I sort of stared at him blankly for a moment, and then he was like, "Both?"

...yeah.

I pretty much like it straight up now, but I still think that the level of detail involved is a bit crazy.

Thanks! Yeah I was silly enough to do a double honours in English and History and a minor in Cultural studies, so I have papers due ever week.

Eek! I feel your pain -- I'm (tentatively) double-majoring in Near Eastern Studies. I can't imagine doing honors in both, or pursuing a minor on top of it. I think it's a little harder, too, because what constitutes a good English paper is very different than what constitutes a good History paper. (Plus, trying to cite in Chicago or Turabian still  makes my head spin. MLA I can do in my sleep, but you add footnotes and I'm lost.)

[Magical_Jen]

Buckle down Jen, or I'm sending Xio Voe in to make sure you do.

Ah! okay okay I'll finish I promise!

Eek! I feel your pain -- I'm (tentatively) double-majoring in Near Eastern Studies. I can't imagine doing honors in both, or pursuing a minor on top of it. I think it's a little harder, too, because what constitutes a good English paper is very different than what constitutes a good History paper. (Plus, trying to cite in Chicago or Turabian still  makes my head spin. MLA I can do in my sleep, but you add footnotes and I'm lost.)

Yeah it can be tricky but there are so many ways to keeping track. When I was a first year I attend all the writing workshops that my university offered. Plus I try to get to know  all my professors and my T.A.'s if possible so i can ask them questions about what the want to see in each paper and what I can avoid. Then I invested in to very important hand books that have saved so many times. The Little Brown essential Handbook for writers(which is purple) and The History Handbook are great guides for anyone who has to write any paper.  Unless I'm writing a Historiography, the process of writing an English and history paper is pretty much the same. The most annoying thing would have to be getting my laptop to recognize some of the terms and names I uses when I hit spell check. I'm taking an Ottoman Empire course this year and anytime I write a paper for that class my screen if full of red marks because of the names and terms. Oh, and the stupid thing won't stay on the Canadian spelling option so I end up adding a lot of "U's" to my paper.