Talin: painter, sculptor, husband?

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

Talin wants to marry Hitari.

What a great idea!  He and Hitari are obviously in love, they're obviously compatible; they've been through a lot, but they're finally happy and settled, and this is a natural next step.

What a terrible idea!  Didn't you hear what Kudorin said about Talin getting Hitari out of his system?  Their relationship is doomed!  DOOMED, I SAY!

Um, hi.  We all know, I think, that Kudorin says things that people need to hear, not the full and complete truth.  It would be stupid of Talin to make a decision based on something that Kudorin said once upon a time.  And Talin isn't stupid.

Let's discuss.

Should Talin marry Hitari?  Yes?  No?  Now?  Later?

Where does this leave Anosanim?

Won't this look like an attempt to deny the Talin/Xio Voe rumors?

Forget about Talin and Hitari, what's Anosanim going to wear?

-Matthew

[lavcea]

Should Talin marry Hitari?  Yes?  No?  Now?  Later?

I think the question is how is Hitari going to react.  Things have been going good for these guys so far and now this.  Is he going to blow or show he's grown up?  That's what I'm worried about.  I don't want Hitari to be the bad guy we met in the beginning.  I don't think my little heart could take it. 

[LilacMajesty]

I, too, think its all going to depend on how Hitari reacts to the rumors.  I think I've made my views of how I feel about Talin and Hitari's relationship pretty clear before this.  So yeah, I've got my fingers crossed that Hitari will realize that Talin was simply reacting to a new inspiration and that he's got no room in his heart for anyone but Hitari.

[Falconer]

I'm not worried about Hitari's reactions to the rumors. After all, he's seen Talin sketching Xio Voh before, so it's not like it will be a shock to him. 



Now as for the wedding...

Okay, here's why I can't see it happening just yet (not in the Rainbow book):

1- It's Kudorin's book and why would Talin's wedding take place in Kudorin's book?

2- Anosanim said he wasn't ready (although it's debatable whether he meant that he wasn't ready for Talin to be married or that he himself wasn't ready for marriage. But here I'm assuming he meant he wasn't ready for Talin to get married). And as we've seen, for the twins it's important for the other twin to be okay with the idea of the other one marrying. Selorin saw it coming, Vade pushed Bade towards it. Yes, Anosanim is happy for Talin and Hitari both, but he's not ready (both figuratively and literally). So it's not gonna happen just yet.

Why I'm pretty sure it *is* going to happen eventually (and for the better):

Quote from Chapter 123:

As they embraced, questions skimmed Talin’s mind, and Kudorin, looking ahead, experienced pangs of joy, of sorrow.  “I love you,” he whispered.  “You are in our hearts, Anosadim, and we are in yours.”  So many paths.  So many possibilities.  But when he looked into the nearly inscrutable depths of Talin’s mesmerizing eyes, he saw a gleaming pathway leading directly to…

            Talin’s eyes narrowed.  “What.”

            Smiling, Kudorin kissed him, tugging on a lock of scarlet hair, feeling an urgent quickening of love.  “On the day of your wedding, I will turn the grass to crimson and the trees to burgundy, and my doves will be cardinals, and flowers will be made of garnets and rubies.  And your husband will be almost as beautiful as mine.”

So, Kudorin looked into the future, and he saw joy and sorrow, but also many paths (some of which may not lead to the sorrow, right?). Then he looked into Talin's eyes, and he saw which path Talin had chosen (proposing to Hitari now), and he smiled and was happy blahblahblah. So Kudorin *is happy* with Talin's choice, meaning proposing to Hitari is a good decision.

Another point, which I realized is not very strong but whatever. Can you think of anyone else whose beauty can rival Xio Voh's in Kudorin's eyes? For Kudorin, Xio Voh is the epitome of beauty, so for him to say that Talin's husband will be almost as beautiful as Xio Voh means that he's going to be pretty gorgeous. Whose beauty has been praised even by the siblings and by Talin the Royal Artist himself? Hitari's. Moving on.

Talin is so sure. He knows in his heart that Hitari's the one for him. Such certainty is not to be taken lightly. Perhaps that's what Kudorin saw in his eyes? "The undeniable truth of his commitment?" How much Talin wanted it, how he would fight to *make* it happen. As Talin said, "It didn't matter what Kudorin had meant."

But even if we disregard that, read this:

“Hitari loves you,” Kudorin murmured, rubbing Talin’s back.  “He wants so badly to be worthy of you.”

            “Worthy of me?” Talin demanded, pulling back.  “I’m not that grand, and he is not that - - we’re people, we’re men, there’s nothing intrinsically good in me that he lacks, or bad in him that I lack.”

            “I only meant to describe it in his words, his perspective,” Kudorin said, stroking the side of Talin’s face.  “I love Hitari, and I wish for the best for him.  In some ways, you, Inanodat, are the best that I have to offer him.”

Notice a change of perspective from Kudorin? He's no longer talking about protecting Talin from Hitari, he's no longer talking about Talin getting over Hitari. Instead he's almost taking Hitari's side. Helping Talin to understand Hitari, to understand where he's coming from. Kudorin is wanting the best for Hitari. Kudorin thinks that Hitari *deserves* Talin. So yeah, it's definitely going to happen and I'm getting emotional!!! *fans herself*

I just think it's not going to happen just yet because as Anosanim said: THERE'S SO MUCH TO DO!!  And Anosanim needs to get used to the idea of Talin married. He needs to get ready, in more ways than one. That's going to take some time. But the marriage, it's gonna happen. 

[LilacMajesty]

OK  A thought just occured to me.  There has not been any official confirmation that we are currently reading the Rainbow Book.  Matthew may be leading us on, just for kicks n' giggles - and we're gonna end up with the Red Book.  Either way, I'll be happy.

[Diamond]

Should Talin marry Hitari?  Yes?  No?  Now?  Later?

No, because I don't like Hitari and we all know why. 

Won't this look like an attempt to deny the Talin/Xio Voe rumors?

Big time. The gossips will say that Talin really is in love with Xio Voe and this marriage is nothing more than an attempt to prove that Talin won't be seduced away from Orina Anoris.

Another point, which I realized is not very strong but whatever.  Can you think of anyone else whose beauty can rival Xio Voh's in Kudorin's eyes?

Keep in mind that we haven't met all the people there are to meet in this series. Even if it were a fact that Hitari was the most beautiful man in Orina Anoris who wasn't born of a god, Talin still might marry a foreigner.

The choices aren't just Hitari now, Hitari later, or lonely Talin. Talin could marry someone we haven't met. Someone even better for him than Hitari.

- Diamond

[Falconer]

I don't get the hate...  I was very suspicious about Hitari's change of heart, but then I have been rereading the parts in which he appears or talked about, and I can see him really trying to be worthy of Talin, to redeem himself. He'll never be a lamb, that's not his personality, he'll always be sly and seductive, and fiercely independent, but his intentions I believe are honest and out of love.

I still think we don't know him completely, that we don't know all that there is to know about him, but this I suppose we'll get to in the Red book. And besides, Talin needs him, and he needs Talin. Together I think they can heal each other. For them it's a question of learning to trust, to be vulnerable to someone else, to allow someone close enough to know you, to hurt you and to trust him not to.    Ahem! 

PS: LilacMajesty, I'm pretty certain we're in the Rainbow book...  Talin hasn't been featured nearly as much as Kudorin and Xio Voh.

[LilacMajesty]

Falconer, with Matthew - you never know.  We could end up with Xio Voe married to Rini or Tiko may come out of the closet and marry T'rin.  And maybe I shouldn't be giving him any ideas.   

[SilverMoon28]

Talin wants to marry Hitari.

What a great idea!  He and Hitari are obviously in love, they're obviously compatible; they've been through a lot, but they're finally happy and settled, and this is a natural next step.

What a terrible idea!  Didn't you hear what Kudorin said about Talin getting Hitari out of his system?  Their relationship is doomed!  DOOMED, I SAY!

Um, hi.  We all know, I think, that Kudorin says things that people need to hear, not the full and complete truth.  It would be stupid of Talin to make a decision based on something that Kudorin said once upon a time.  And Talin isn't stupid.

Let's discuss.

Should Talin marry Hitari?  Yes?  No?  Now?  Later?

Where does this leave Anosanim?

Won't this look like an attempt to deny the Talin/Xio Voe rumors?

Forget about Talin and Hitari, what's Anosanim going to wear?

-Matthew

What's Anosanim going to wear?  I don't know!  If his twin brother's getting married, you *know* he'll be wearing something really cute and fancy (and probably sexy - it's Ansanim, of course it'll be sexy).  Maybe some of that Jacacean lace and... I don't know.  Other than that, I'm at a loss for what he could possibly wear.

Something orange!!

Though that doesn't really narrow it down, does it?

Should Talin marry Hitari?  I think that Talin's ready for marriage, myself, but Hitari might really not be.  Remember the suspicious look on his face when he overheard Kudorin's comment?  I have a feeling that he would have been really happy at the mere thought of it.  So... maybe he shouldn't marry him.  Or maybe he should...

I... don't know.

Vani

[Falconer]

What's Anosanim going to wear?  I don't know!  If his twin brother's getting married, you *know* he'll be wearing something really cute and fancy (and probably sexy - it's Ansanim, of course it'll be sexy).  Maybe some of that Jacacean lace and... I don't know. 

You know, I totally forgot about that Jacacean lace! You're right, I think Anosanim will design it into his outfit.

[LilacMajesty]

I'm sure that Ritek will help Anosanim pick something appropriate for the wedding, something that will look just lovely lying on the floor when he takes it off of his favorite prince later on that night.

[SilverMoon28]

Now you're also making me wonder what Talin's going to wear - assuming that Hitari agrees to the wedding, that is.  For some reason, I'm seeing him wearing a pair of dark red suede boots that lace up the side with laces that are lighter shades of red.  And read leather pants.  Apart from that, I don't know.  Any ideas?

Mmmm... I'm already helping my best friend design her wedding... I feel like designing Talin's and Hitari's as well now!  Thanks a lot for that :p.

Vani

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

Okay, so I read this:

Anosanim said he wasn't ready (although it's debatable whether he meant that he wasn't ready for Talin to be married or that he himself wasn't ready for marriage. But here I'm assuming he meant he wasn't ready for Talin to get married). And as we've seen, for the twins it's important for the other twin to be okay with the idea of the other one marrying. Selorin saw it coming, Vade pushed Bade towards it. Yes, Anosanim is happy for Talin and Hitari both, but he's not ready (both figuratively and literally).

And then I read this:

For them it's a question of learning to trust, to be vulnerable to someone else, to allow someone close enough to know you, to hurt you and to trust him not to

And then I remembered that baby-Anosanim used to cry because baby-Talin was hungry.

Which led me to: I wonder if Anosanim's not ready because Talin's not ready.

[LilacMajesty]

Ohhh that is an excellent point.  And I have to admit, Anosukinom's words have really been bothering me.  I have had the strong feeling since Friday that I'm not going to get my way with Talin and Hitari.

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

Anosukinom's words have really been bothering me

It's hard to know how to take them, which ways to interpret them, etc.  What's the truth, and what's just Talin needs to hear?  What does Kudorin mean?  Why doesn't he have an interpreter and subtitles?

I don't know, I'm torn between advising Talin to listen to Kudorin (because Kudorin is Anosukinom, and how can you not take advice from the living god among us), and advising him to forget about Kudorin (because you can't base major life decisions solely on what Kudorin said once upon a time, when we all know that it's not always unadulterated truth).

-Matthew

[Falconer]

And then I remembered that baby-Anosanim used to cry because baby-Talin was hungry.

Which led me to: I wonder if Anosanim's not ready because Talin's not ready.

  I've never thought of it that way, but it's very possible! And it would further support my previous point: the marriage is not for tomorrow this book.

PS: Do you remember where that baby-thing was mentioned? I'd like to go back and re-read it!  These two are so cute.

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

ITL 39.3, Eleita:

“I remember when you were just a little baby,” she said, misty-eyed.  “Our dear baby, so tiny, so fierce.  Anosanim would cry for the both of you, do you remember that?  He’d cry, and we’d try to feed him or burp him or cuddle him or check his diaper, and he’d be fine, and then we’d realize that you needed to be changed, and once we did that, he’d stop.  There you’d be, our stoic little Nisutalin, never making a sound, but Anosanim always knew, and he’d always make sure that you were taken care of.”

[Falconer]

Ooh, thank you!! 

[LilacMajesty]

What I really like about that little Talin/Anosanim story is that their Sadum tells it every year on their birthday.  "You may be Children of the Gods, but you still had dirty diapers".   

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

I like Talin's reply.  "Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm."

Speaking of Eleita - - watch me get this back on-topic! - - I wonder how Talin's parents feel about this whole marrying Hitari thing.

-Matthew

[LilacMajesty]

I don't think Manosuta's gonna be very happy about it.

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

You might be right.

On the other hand, Hitari's family should be thrilled.

-Matthew

[LilacMajesty]

Uh oh   Hitari's family - Uncle Dimi is gonna have a few things to say about this union.  :::ducks behind Desin:::

[anaskee]

ITL 39.3, Eleita:

“I remember when you were just a little baby,” she said, misty-eyed.  “Our dear baby, so tiny, so fierce.  Anosanim would cry for the both of you, do you remember that?  He’d cry, and we’d try to feed him or burp him or cuddle him or check his diaper, and he’d be fine, and then we’d realize that you needed to be changed, and once we did that, he’d stop.  There you’d be, our stoic little Nisutalin, never making a sound, but Anosanim always knew, and he’d always make sure that you were taken care of.”

One of my favorite parts about Talin and Anosanim!

I love Talin with Hitari.  One cannot be an artist without all that drama!   I am so happy that their relationship is doing well.  In saying that, I can't help but have this feeling that their problems aren't over yet.  I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.  So, Talin already proposed and Hitari already said yes, but can you imagine what a nightmare it would be getting Remin's blessing?   Remin was pretty brutal and very thorough with Orinakin and Bade.  But I also know that Talin can be very stuuborn and determined.  I can't wait for the shit to hit the fan!

[Falconer]

One of my favorite parts about Talin and Anosanim!

I love Talin with Hitari.  One cannot be an artist without all that drama!   I am so happy that their relationship is doing well.  In saying that, I can't help but have this feeling that their problems aren't over yet.  I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.  So, Talin already proposed and Hitari already said yes, but can you imagine what a nightmare it would be getting Remin's blessing?   Remin was pretty brutal and very thorough with Orinakin and Bade.  But I also know that Talin can be very stuuborn and determined.  I can't wait for the shit to hit the fan!

I didn't think of the interview with Remin!    Going through that might be tough for Hitari, but it would at least answer some of the questions we all have I think...

From Chapter 47       

“Have you shared your true selves with each other, not presenting false impressions or representations of your personality and temperament?”

           

[anaskee]

I'll be looking forward to reading that.   

[LilacMajesty]

I'm seriously scared about this part.  I almost feel like Hitari shouldn't have to go through it.

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

I almost feel like Hitari shouldn't have to go through it.

(I'm running off of the assumption that you mean the interview with Remin.)

My first thought was that he has to do it.  Everyone does.  No Anorian priest would marry them without it.

That aside, I think it's good for Hitari to do it.  If he and Talin face the interview, get Remin's okay, and get Ilanosa's blessing, that'll shut everybody up.  Who's going to be the one to say that Hitari's not good for Talin, that they shouldn't get married, when Remin and Ilanosa have approved it?

-Matthew

[anaskee]

I can already envision it!  If Hitari can go through that and get the blessing, he's IT for Talin. 

[Matthew Haldeman-Time]

Would it be smart for Hitari to push for another priest to interview them?  Someone who isn't personally associated with either one of them, for an unbiased view?

But that brings Remin's integrity into question.  It implies that Remin allows his personal/private views to affect his decisions (and therefore his governing, etc.).  It suggests that even if Ilanosa approves the match and Hitari and Talin can/should get married, Remin would still deny them.  And is it really a good idea for either Hitari or Talin to suggest that the royal high priest lets his bias get in the way?

-Matthew

[anaskee]

I think Remin should still do the interviewing.  And he should give them a hard time.  Because getting a blessing is not just formality.  I love Remin's interview with Orinakin and Bade but I knew that they'll be given the blessing anyway.  Not with Talin and Hitari.  They have LOTS of issues and all of it should be cleared up before they get married.

Hmmn, I think I overdosed on "should" in this post 

[LilacMajesty]

At this point, there's only one thing I can do for Talin and Hitari -